Article 11763 of alt.rave: Newsgroups: alt.rave Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!bnrgate!corpgate!crchh327!davisonj From: davisonj@bnr.ca (John M Davison) Subject: Re: Techno Music has no heart Sender: news@news.rich.bnr.ca (news server) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 05:50:59 GMT References: <30MAY93.24897613.0069@VM1.MCGILL.CA> <1993Jun1.133236.19917@newsie.dc.dk> <1993Jun8.110042.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: crchh7ab Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx. Followup-To: alt.geek Lines: 128 In article <1993Jun8.110042.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> c9224146@cc.newcastle.edu.au (ALLES NAAR DE KLOTE) writes: >> |> The subject line expresses a conclusion I am on the verge of >> |> making. Almost all of the Techno or Rave music I have heard >> |> thus far is emotionless and negative. >> |> >> |> Just a lot of industrial thump thump thump. I usually feel >> |> pretty bad while and after listening to it. ... >Personally, this is what I love about this music. However, if you listen, you >will surely know that techno usually has NO message, no image etc. it is >faceless. The idea that "techno usually has NO message, no image etc. it is faceless" is certainly not one that is embraced by enough of a majority for it to be considered an intrinsic property of techno itself, but rather an indication of what Mr./Mrs./Ms. ALLES NAAR DE KLOTE is getting out of it. This is an important distinction that needs to be made, I think, when discussing exactly what the nature of the state of the "techno" art is. I doubt that Mr./Mrs./Ms. ALLES NAAR DE KLOTE can concoct an example of any kind of music that is utterly devoid of either "message" or "image" without invoking a generalized (i.e. weak), Cageian definition of music; even then, an argument that anything perceived as "music" could also be perceived as having a "message" or "image" practically by definition could be made, for example, by appealing to the analogy of humankind's search for the "meaning of life" or something like Iannis Xenakis' remarks in _Formalized_Music_ about the tendency of humans to impose a notion of order on random sequences. The fact that a lingua franca has emerged in techno (for example, the popularity of the TR-909, 303 bassline, the Juno-106) is ample evidence that not only do techno songs have messages, but that these messages are strong enough to have produced a set of musical styles. Techno is an effective form of musical communication -- it has managed to get pretty far considering that it can't easily be promoted on television (since it provides no MTV-suitable visuals and half the fun comes from the fact that the DJ is an active performer). As an aside, it might be my imagination, but it seems that techno music is much more easily exchanged among different countries than is the case with other popular styles, presumably because there isn't as much of a language barrier as there is with more lyrically-based music (such as rap). One of the triumphs of techno is a more thorough assimilation of electronic music idioms into popular music than has heretofore been the case. Synthesizers -- particularly the old Moog-style analog synthesizers -- are no longer popularly regarded as "fake" or "foreign" or "unnatural" -- not becase they have gotten good at reproducing acoustic musical instruments, but because styles like techno came along and allowed these synthesizers (and synthesists) to excel in their own context instead of being awkwardly grafted onto other styles. I think that this phenomenon has accelerated in the last couple of years, and I can point to three reasons: 1. Dance music is the most accessible format in which to do timbral experimentation (which is what synthesizers currently do best, although the emphases in computer music are shifting from "sound" design to "high-level process" design now that computers have become powerful enough and friendly enough to make such experimentation practical. 2. Audiences have grown accustomed to the sound of old Moog-style analog synthesizers, so they are no longer novel but instead an essential part of our modern musical language. 3. Electronic music synthesizers have historically been notoriously difficult to control with any reasonable degree of subtlety. The availability of (relatively) powerful and friendly computer interfaces (e.g. MIDI, computer sequencers) is a new development that allows much more dextrous control of synthesizers -- the interface has been improved, tedious tasks have become less tedious, and the productivity of the synthesist has increased. This translates to fewer equipment-related compositional and performance compromises and accelerated musical progress both for the composer and for styles as a whole. Another nice thing about techno is that much of it de-emphasizes the notions of "harmony" and "melody" in favor of rhythm and timbre (now that we have better tools to explore each), and this is done for purely aesthetic reasons and not for quasi-political reasons (as was the case with industrial music, which was not based in a sound but rather an attitude toward society -- see the Re/Search _Industrial_Culture_Handbook_ for details). > The only thing that could make it sound negative is those lovely >sinister sounding keyboard lines.. ie. listen to DARK ENGLISH BREAKBEAT for >good examples... and/or an industrial [?] THUMP THUMP THUMP.. ie. GABBER >(oops, a rude word... sorry.).. There is a good amount of "happy" techno out there; wasn't this discussed a little while ago? Happy techno (e.g. "Happy Happy Joy Joy" by Global, "Banana Splits" by the Banana Collective, "Fire (Sunrise Version) [sic?]" by the Prodigy, "Rushing the House" by Xenophobia, "Get Ready for This" by alt.rave favorites 2 Unlimited, the universally-adored "Poing" by Rotterdam Termination Source, "On a Ragga Tip" by SL2, "Vengeance" by DMS, and countless others) seems to be more popular here in the Dallas, Texas, USA area than in other places (like the Chicagoland area), but the whole techno style seems to be falling out of fashion here in Dallas as well as much of the USA, and the "happy" sounding stuff is no exception. Personally, I think this is a shame; I much prefer the music I heard last summer (lots of happy techno, hardcore techno, and breakbeat) to what I have been hearing recently (lots of house and trancey stuff), and I don't understand why the musical styles that were so popular in early-to-mid-1992 didn't last longer than they did. I suspect that a lot of it had to do with Joe Public hearing way too much radio-ready (bland, lyric-based) techno and deciding that if this is techno, then techno is no good. (The person who initiated this discussion may be an example of something like this.) Of course, isn't this to be expected from an "underground" phenomenon? > I think if you wanted to listen to happy sounding music, >a good place to go would be into an apartment store elevator for a few hours. My first impulse is to be skeptical of the tastes of someone who would recommend an "apartment store elevator" as a good place to hear happy sounding music, but then again, I've never had the privilege of being in an apartment store, let alone an apartment store elevator, so I suppose I should reserve judgement until I experience the singular pleasure of hearing happy music while occupied for hours in an apartment store elevator. Come to think of it, when is the last time anyone heard music while in an elevator? (Personal stereos don't count.) At any rate, the claim that "happy sounding music" is necessarily lightweight "elevator" music -- which I think that Mr./Mrs./Ms. ALLES NAAR DE KLOTE is close to making -- is absurd. -- John Davison, davisonj@ecn.purdue.edu <---- send followups to THIS ADDRESS!!!!! (Otherwise your mail will bounce!) The stuff contained in this article isn't necessarily representative of what goes on at BNR; shame on you if you think it does. Article 11772 of alt.rave: Path: agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!axjb From: axjb@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Anthony Bailey) Newsgroups: alt.rave Subject: Re: Techno Music has no heart Message-ID: Date: 9 Jun 93 12:16:18 GMT Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh Lines: 35 Just read a very long and thoughtful post from John M Davison about the above subject, making reference to definitions of music and communication. Very interesting stuff, thanks John. I may be wrong, but I think that the original poster may have been more concerned with the overt expression of emotion in techno songs, or lack thereof. Although music can always communicate emotional feeling on a somewhat abstract level, which is something that techno does very well, a lot of other art communicates emotions specifically by providing a context. On the music front, most of the most moving and emotionally resonant songs make some effort, usually through the content of their lyrics, to stage a little piece of mini-theatre to set the scene; the music then acts as a moving backdrop to this scene in addition to any of the more general communication that might be afforded by the notes and rhythms themselves. At the risk of alienating people by citing examples dependent on my own taste, "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" by the Righteous Brothers, "All Tomorrow's Parties" by the VU & Nico, "No More Sorry" by My Bloody Valentine. If the emotions being felt in the above are all of a depressive nature, are all "poignant", well, that's just sonething that I find music is able to do especially well. Question is, boys and girls, can techno act as a medium for this sort of thing? If yes, has it so far, any examples? If there's some fundamental reasons why not (vocals are not what techno is best known for, for example), then tell us about them? I think that the hardcore stuff probably has more potential to be used for messages of emotional/political discontent and rage than any of the musical forms that have been used in the past (punk, heavy metal, hip hop). But I haven't heard any hardcore that actually turns its rage on anything in particular yet. -- ___ ___ _____ ____ ___ ___ ____ _-----------------------------_ (__ )/ )<_ _// / // )/ )/ / /\ / Boomerang FM, all our DJs on )### / , // / / // / / // / // / /(_ / / / a wage of sixty-seven pounds /#. .# (___/(_(_/ /(_/ (_/_/(___/(_(_/(___/ / / twenty a fortnight... /[ U ] \__\/\__\/ \\/ \__\/\__\/\__\/\__\/ (________________________________\ \\_// axjb@uk.ac.ed.dcs Anthony Bailey \_/ Article 11779 of alt.rave: Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!uta.fi!uta.fi!f1sami From: f1sami@uta.fi (Samu Mielonen) Newsgroups: alt.rave Subject: Re: Techno Music has no heart Date: 9 Jun 1993 16:51:13 +0300 Organization: University of Tampere, Finland Lines: 70 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: anemone.uta.fi axjb@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Anthony Bailey) writes: ... "I may be wrong, but I think that the original poster may have been more concerned "with the overt expression of emotion in techno songs, or lack thereof. Although "music can always communicate emotional feeling on a somewhat abstract level, which "is something that techno does very well, a lot of other art communicates emotions "specifically by providing a context. On the music front, most of the most moving "and emotionally resonant songs make some effort, usually through the content of "their lyrics, to stage a little piece of mini-theatre to set the scene; the music "then acts as a moving backdrop to this scene in addition to any of the more "general communication that might be afforded by the notes and rhythms themselves. Here I must disagree. Personally I find the composition to be the primary element in setting the emotion of a song. Words (if any) provide the second element, which in turn may reinforce or contrast the emotional setting first generated by the music. "At the risk of alienating people by citing examples dependent on my own taste, ""You've Lost That Loving Feeling" by the Righteous Brothers, "All Tomorrow's "Parties" by the VU & Nico, "No More Sorry" by My Bloody Valentine. If the emotions "being felt in the above are all of a depressive nature, are all "poignant", well, "that's just sonething that I find music is able to do especially well. "Question is, boys and girls, can techno act as a medium for this sort of thing? Can techno (or more generally instrumental tracks) act as a medium of conveying emotions? Induce hope, fear, inspiration, desperation, perhaps even joy? Yes, I do think so. "If yes, has it so far, any examples? If there's some fundamental reasons why not "(vocals are not what techno is best known for, for example), then tell us about "them? I think all of my examples would be highly personal as with anybody else coming up with examples, thus they probably wouldn't mean anything to anybody else (in terms of emtions). I do believe that some structures, melodies, rhythms, etc. are associated (subconsciously) with some incidents or past feelings, thus the music itself becomes emotional. Of course, I have nothing to back this up with as I'm not a psychology major :) "I think that the hardcore stuff probably has more potential to be used for "messages of emotional/political discontent and rage than any of the musical forms "that have been used in the past (punk, heavy metal, hip hop). But I haven't "heard any hardcore that actually turns its rage on anything in particular yet. I don't think that unstructured repetition is the best form of protest; people get accustomed to repeating patterns. I mean, people even dance to hardcore! :) And I do think that for a major display of discontent one is going to need words, or otherwise the message might be lost to almost everyone. Not all people know how to speak with music after all. At least I dont' :) End of alt.rave.sociological :) peace, sZm -- f1sami@kielo.uta.fi tekkno ~ minimal ~ pop ~ crapola ~ acid ~ dubness ~ mo "Think before you type." - E. Willey -- f1sami@kielo.uta.fi tekkno ~ minimal ~ pop ~ crapola ~ acid ~ dubness ~ mo "Think before you type." - E. Willey Article 11783 of alt.rave: Newsgroups: alt.rave Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!uknet!cf-cm!cybaswan!ccsteve From: ccsteve@swan.pyr (s marshall) Subject: Re: Techno Music has no heart Message-ID: <1993Jun9.165622.17635@swan.pyr> Organization: Swansea University College References: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 16:56:22 GMT Lines: 34 > >I think that the hardcore stuff probably has more potential to be used for >messages of emotional/political discontent and rage than any of the musical forms >that have been used in the past (punk, heavy metal, hip hop). But I haven't >heard any hardcore that actually turns its rage on anything in particular yet. >-- > ___ ___ _____ ____ ___ ___ ____ _-----------------------------_ > (__ )/ )<_ _// / // )/ )/ / /\ / Boomerang FM, all our DJs on )### > / , // / / // / / // / // / /(_ / / / a wage of sixty-seven pounds /#. .# >(___/(_(_/ /(_/ (_/_/(___/(_(_/(___/ / / twenty a fortnight... /[ U ] > \__\/\__\/ \\/ \__\/\__\/\__\/\__\/ (________________________________\ \\_// >axjb@uk.ac.ed.dcs Anthony Bailey \_/ One of the things about techno music that I like is that it doesn't have an political etc. overtones to it. It is just music for the sake of it, music to dance & get into without having a load of politics rammed down your throat. That's not to say that I don't listen to other forms of music where this is the case, but when you're out there raving do you really want to have a load of political discontent going on. Also I feel that this may cause fragmentation of the thing when you got one group of people with 1 set of views & another group with different views you more than likely get friction! my opinions only, KEEP DANCING!! steve -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ccsteve@uk.ac.swan.pyr 'I can't be bothered thinking up a witty signature file' THE END.